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The politics(argument) thread
msgPostFebruary 4, 2017, 18:30
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

Let's keep the chatbox argument free so visitors don't get scared away!

The surest way to lose friends is to debate politics, so try to respect everybody else's view, debate it in a proper grown up manner with valid points and no personal insults or Vlad will ban you. After I nag him to. Lots.

What do you guys think to this? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-ban-judge-suspended-reacts-big-trouble-tweet-immigration-bob-ferguson-a7562671.html

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VladoPostFebruary 5, 2017, 11:23
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

My view is that you lose friends because of politics, they weren't your real friends to begin with... I have a very good friend whose political views are considerably different from mine and we argue sometimes, but we're still very good friends, so I don't think that should be a problem.

As for Trump's ban, it's not good enough. He only went after the easy targets. Why didn't he ban Saudi Arabia also? That country is the biggest exporter and supporter of terrorism in the Arab world. But there's too much money that would be lost if he banned them, too. It's all business, after all, even in politics.

Based on the fact that not all muslim countries were banned, I say people attacking him based on it being an "anti-muslim" ban have no ground to stand on.

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msgPostFebruary 5, 2017, 11:40
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

The reason he didn't ban Saudis and Pakistanis is because their government shares information with the US about it's citizens, they know if a criminal or whatever is about to enter. The 7 countries he banned refused to share information.

I back him 100%, it's purely about security, nothing more.

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VladoPostFebruary 5, 2017, 18:45
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

Hm, is that a post 9/11 thing? Because most of the terrorists there were Saudis.

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msgPostFebruary 5, 2017, 19:34
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

I have no idea. Thinking about it, I don't blame the US for demanding those conditions so it could be. Same with Pakistan after Bin Laden.

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msgPostFebruary 11, 2017, 10:47
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

Take this test everybody and post your results! https://www.politicalcompass.org/
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rockshardPhDPostFebruary 11, 2017, 12:05
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

No, because all you get for it is a red dot on a graph. That's really boring. Most people get a similar score anyway, so it's not that interesting.

Plus we did this at least twice already on favslist and unikgamer.

msgPostFebruary 11, 2017, 12:15
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

Explain your political alignment to me then. Are you left wing or right and why?

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rockshardPhDPostFebruary 12, 2017, 07:19
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

Husky Wing thinks I've been brainwashed by the alt right. I see a strong case for libertarianism and free market on one hand, but on the other hand I think capitalism is prone to breed immorality. But I also think the government is essentially a corporation. Really, we're all fucked unless we have strong principles. (and good safety protocols)

The score I got is:
Economic Left/Right: -0.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.36
But I wasn't answering the questions seriously, since I just wanted to copy and paste the questions, and the site forces you to answer them all to proceed to the next page.

Page 1:

"No one chooses their country of birth so it's foolish to be proud of it" This is more or less correct. BUT, in theory, a country could be objectively superior, and you could be born in that country. This is unlike religion where nobody can objectively prove the legitimacy of their own religion, ergo it devolves into a kind of racial concept rather than an intellectual one.

Page 2:

"controlling inflation is more important than controlling unemployment" Both are important?

"Because corporations can't be trusted to protect the environment, they need to be regulated" Well, the first half of the sentence is true, but I also wouldn't place complete trust in the government to regulate them.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need is a fundamentally good idea" I might not call it a "fundamentally" good idea. Each person's ability and needs ought to be considered, but it shouldn't be the end all.

"It's a sad reflection on society that drinking water is a branded product" That sounds like something a communist would say. Also, I buy bottled water, so..

"Land shouldn't be a commodity to be bought and sold" OK. Here's the thing. I believe you cannot really "own" land. But this applies to government too.

"It is regrettable that many personal fortunes are made by people who simply manipulate money and contribute nothing to their society." Maybe.. but then again what can you do. Also if they have more money then they spend more and that ultimately means the money ends up going back to the economy anyway, or even to charity. I think?

"The rich are too highly taxed" I hear arguments that this is actually the case. Also that the rich are used as a scapegoat and villified for political gain. All of this seems plausible to me. Also, hurting the rich doesn't benefit me personally. I don't understand Bernie supporters. Step 1 fucj the rich. Step 2 ?????. Step 3: PROFIT.

"The only social responsibility of a company should be to deliver a profit to its shareholders." What? No. Who says that? But then again I was under the impression that shareholders are the butt of the world. I was surprised when Stefan Molyneux once pointed out they are a good thing since it helps companies take risks that wouldn't otherwise be possible. But if there's no greater good achieved then what's the point?

"Those with the ability to pay should have the right to higher standards of medical care." Let's put it this way. I don't think the rich are entitled to better medical care than the poor. But I also don't think the poor are entitled to the same standard of medical care as the rich. We are all privileged to receive medical care at all. Also, medical care is only possible thanks to people in that profession, and those people don't necessarily owe anyone anything. To receive medical care is to engage in voluntary exchange with those people. (More or less)

"Governments should penalise businesses that mislead the public." Preferably if it's a health thing or something. Targeting videogame systems and the like seems kind of lame, and really, at some point it's the responsibility of consumers to see through that shit.

"The freer the market, the freer the people." That makes sense.

Page 3:

"All authority should be questioned." Pretty much.

"Taxpayers should not be expected to prop up any theatres or museums that cannot survive on a commercial basis." So true. It's amazing how much tax money gets wasted on frivolous things. That's why I don't understand the whole "tax the rich" mentality. You're pretty much just taking someone else's money and burning it, and that's somehow supposed to fix the country. But fuck that guy, he was rich!

"Schools should not make classroom attendance compulsory." I agree with this sentiment.

"Good parents sometimes have to spank their children." Good parents may have to, bad parents will anyway.

"Possessing marijuana for personal use should not be a criminal offence." Agreed, especially because it has medical uses.

"The prime function of schooling should be to equip the future generation to find jobs." Agreed, especially if the school is funded by public money.

"People with serious inheritable disabilities should not be allowed to reproduce." I agree that in some cases someone shouldn't reproduce. But it's another question of whether to disallow them and how to. In theory, however, if someone shouldn't do something (to another person) then it's in another's right to forcibly prevent them from doing it. It's more complicated when it's government doing this because it can result in an abuse of power. There's also the question of who decides what actions need to be forcibly prevented and which actions are permissible. I may think that person shouldnt reproduce but others may disagree, and vice versa. We can vote on it but then it just becomes popularity contest. Anyway what were we talking about again?

"The most important thing for children to learn is to accept discipline" If accepting discipline is a skill then it is a skill with limited application.

"There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures." You're kidding right? EDIT: Actually there is xenophobia and cultural chauvinism to take into account. There are probably bad aspects to any culture thus far and it would help to look at these things objectively. But nothing says a culture has to be good. Also I enjoyed the film The Last Samurai and Disney's Pocahontas and they deal with exactly this.

Page 4:

"In criminal justice, punishment should be more important than rehabilitation." The aim of criminal justice should be deterrent and rehabilitation only. Anything else is an admission of impotency by the justice system. Though it just occurred to me that justice isn't even the right word, since it implies revenge.

"The businessperson and the manufacturer are more important than the writer and the artist." Pretty much.

Page 5:

"It is important that my child's school instills religious values." If you're gonna teach a child one thing (and schools don't teach children anything) then teach her moral principle. I know that wasn't what the question said, but I assume that's what was intended.

msgPostFebruary 12, 2017, 09:19
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

Interesting, we share some ideas.

About the disabled reproducing thing - I made a decision myself not to have anymore kids after my daughter because she has problems, she never developed properly, she's currently taking daily hormone injections which give her massive mood swings, life is harder for her than an average kid. My wife (not my daughters mother) was born with a hole in her heart, her mother has had heart surgery aged just 50, and her grandma died from something heart related in her 40, so I doubley wouldn't risk it. If they were born with something wrong I couldn't live with myself knowing what I know but went ahead anyway.

What's your beef with schools anyway? I think everybody should have hiugher education, so they should build taller schools.

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msgPostFebruary 12, 2017, 14:57
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

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Silent GamerPostFebruary 13, 2017, 15:05
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

All dat shit Rukk said, i agree!

rockshardPhDPostFebruary 15, 2017, 07:06
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread
Quote from msg on February 12, 2017, 09:19

Interesting, we share some ideas.

Quote from Silent Gamer on February 13, 2017, 15:05

All dat shit Rukk said, i agree!

It's a cold day in hell...

msgPostFebruary 15, 2017, 11:07
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

Coincidence? Of course not. It's 1930s Germany all over again.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/scandal-19-million-brits-living-9819339
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-vote-hate-crime-rise-100-per-cent-england-wales-police-figures-new-racism-eu-a7580516.html

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VladoPostFebruary 15, 2017, 23:49
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

Fortunately, you don't have it nearly as bad as the Germans back then... Brexit should help avoid that.

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msgPostFebruary 16, 2017, 09:36
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Yeah you're right, it's just frustrating, history is there to be learned from. France brought on WW2 by insisting on mega strict punishment for Germany after the great war and refused to back down despite warnings from other countries. The EU ignored our pleas, just like they did Greece, Spain, Italy etc. They brought this on by refusing to listen.

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msgPostMarch 31, 2017, 20:32
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-guidelines-eu-hands-spain-power-over-gibraltars-future-10819502

Oh Spain, why oh why do you still want Gibraltar?!

1. It's British territory
2. It's British citizens want to remain British
3. Didn't you see what happened when Argentina tried to take our land?
4. How many billions of euros will you lose if British tourists stop coming? Your economy is already in shit street.

We will fuck you, and don't think we won't. The EU can't stop us anymore.

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SudertumPostMarch 31, 2017, 21:38
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread
Quote from msg on March 31, 2017, 20:32

http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-guidelines-eu-hands-spain-power-over-gibraltars-future-10819502

Oh Spain, why oh why do you still want Gibraltar?!

1. It's British territory
2. It's British citizens want to remain British
3. Didn't you see what happened when Argentina tried to take our land?
4. How many billions of euros will you lose if British tourists stop coming? Your economy is already in shit street.

We will fuck you, and don't think we won't. The EU can't stop us anymore.

Is that kind of bigger dick thingy? :?
1# It is, but before UK took it from Spain in ????, so the claim is understandable to me. Don't get the point of owning this rock to be honest...
2# According my sources is the majority of its population is not british (only ~15%) beeing mostly spanish, portuguese and maltese as their origin! A voting could be pro UK stilll...
3# Compare not Spain not with Argentina wouldn't try to land troops on their mainland, even France under Napoleon failed. History might repeat...
4# Starting a "tradewar" wouldn't help anyone!
And indeed UK will fuck itself with their decisions, only a question of time.

P.S. UK isn't the first territory leaving EU/EC :P
First was Algeria with their independence from France in 1962, second was Greenland in 1985 after a voting, so only bronze medal here for Great Britain! :)

msgPostMarch 31, 2017, 21:58
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread

With the pound falling against the euro people will have "staycations" instead, it's already happening. That massively benefits the UK economy! And with the euro so strong many more people are choosing to visit "cheap" Britain, again making our economy even stronger.

I fail to see how we can possibly lose in a contest with Spain.

And I promise all you Europeans, Gibraltar will remain British no matter what, unless it's residents decide not to be British.

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SudertumPostMarch 31, 2017, 22:09
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Very Hot topicThe politics(argument) thread
Quote from msg on March 31, 2017, 21:58

With the pound falling against the euro people will have "staycations" instead, it's already happening. That massively benefits the UK economy! And with the euro so strong many more people are choosing to visit "cheap" Britain, again making our economy even stronger.

I fail to see how we can possibly lose.

And I promise all you Europeans, Gibraltar will remain British no matter what, unless it's residents decide not to be British.

Since then is Britain cheap? 8O I can see a failing in severall ways this is now wild guessing though. But the next two years are decisive, i am curious about the results no real idea about them...
Consider a voting in Gibraltar as not that unlikely, no clue of a potential result...

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